Y: "...and it would be nice if they would vandalize the first floor a little bit, break some windows or maybe something else too. Please, do what you want..."
Y: ".. but keep in mind that if this happens, if there will be violence from you, Kiev is going to answer you." I asked him to not do this. Let Kiev celebrate normally and put their trust into politicians to solve problems in a political manner.
S: No. What they did yesterday and the day before yesterday is clearly bringing Kiev's sympathy over to your side. This is obvious. The main thing is for you to be calm and fierce. This is something that people long for...
Y: Sunday showed this. You know, they bussed in 15,000 people. They counted 20,000. But in Kiev, there are 140... 140,000 came out simply because we sent out 1.5 million invitations.
Saakashvili and Scheffer: Planning Ukraine's Future
S: Yes, and yesterday I talked to Hoop Scheffer. [Jaap de Hoop Scheffer is NATO's Secretery General - Ed.] He said that he'll call all the Europeans, but that they should all support the idea of early elections because elections are the only way out of this crisis in a normal democracy. There is no other way.
Y: The courts are powerless now. The courts are demoralized. They are in such shape that when the question became a political one, the Constitutional Court could not answer it. [Note: Yuschenko also fired three members of the Constitutional Court who opposed him, in another move whose legality has been highly criticized - Ed.]
S: But even if the court does something, it is because someone bribed it. It needs to be ignored. What is a court? What can a court decide in a political situation?
Y: Absolutely. The court is not an expert on political issues. It can decide questions of rights, but cannot answer political questions. This is what the government is for. It's hard for the courts.
You read that right, folks: Saakashvili and Yuschenko openly tell each other that in a democracy, what matters isn't their courts, since they don't know anything about politics, but rather, what NATO's secretary general wants. And if the head of the NATO military alliance supports a legally-questionable presidential decree calling for new elections that Yuschenko feels assured he'll win, then that's better for developing Ukraine's democracy than letting Ukraine's courts decide the legality of the matter.
At this point, as if subconsciously sensing their neo-Soviet villainy, the old Russia bogeyman makes a surprise appearance:
S: I think that... Hey, have you been watching Russian TV? They're showing crazy hysteria. They're showing some sort of...
Y: Well, have you read the [Russian] State Duma's statement?
S: No I didn't. But the propaganda is crazy.
Y: Anyway, they've issued a statement saying that I've issued an illegal order, that the [Ukrainian] parliament has been disbanded under my direct threat, etc.
S: Yesterday they were discussing the possibility of sending a peacekeeping force openly on Russian TV...
Y: They want an international initiative headed by Russia...
The EU's Solana: Democrat or Annoying Peacenik?
S: The Financial Times showed very good initiative, I mean by publishing that article. They are great. Shows that their team is working well. I think that even if Solana and some other Europeans are going to insist that we "work together" or saying something like "maybe let's live peacefully" [i.e., that Yuschenko negotiate with his opponents in the parliamentEd.], that the majority of Europeans will understand. Of course, we'll have to work on them a bit. The Americans understand the importance of elections. There [Apparently meaning Russia, not America. -Ed.] , my brother, the politics were precise. They knew before the elections they wanted Yuschenko's head on a platter. They had a clear plan, but you got them first. You've mixed up all their cards. This is for real.